DRS D00028377

DRS Appeal

Expert’s False Assumptions

....
Expert assumed the Complainant knew the Respondent's identity. At the time of filing, the public WHOIS was blank. Nominet's correspondence was initially blank, later identified GoDaddy Privacy as the Respondent before later switching to CashEuroNetUK LLC. The Complainant could not have known the Respondent's identity in advance.

....
CashEuroNetUK LLC cannot be the true Respondent — it has been dissolved. Expert repeatedly mentions administration:

......

As a dissolved company, Domain Name would have vested in the Crown under the doctrine of bona vacantia. The decision in DRS01409 (tigerbeer.co.uk) is directly relevant, where it was held that if the Crown acquired a domain name such that it could be sold to the highest bidder, this would be unfairly detrimental to a complainant's rights.

Complainant had been in correspondence with Bona Vacantia prior to filing. In an email dated 16 July 2025, Bona Vacantia confirmed that CashEuroNetUK LLC 'appears to have been voluntarily cancelled,' consistent with the Companies House and Delaware dissolution records submitted to them.

Complainant did not plead the bona vacantia point specifically because the Respondent's identity was unknown. RDAP records show Domain Name last transferred (Registrar/Registrant?) two days before company entered administration in 2019. Transferee could equally have been a former director, trademark agent, or web designer.

Complainant pleaded case on the basis of the information available. In the absence of a satisfactory response to paragraph 5.1.6, the Complaint invited consideration under paragraphs 5.1.1.2 and 5.1.1.3. Had a Response been filed providing a legitimate explanation, Complainant may have withdrawn Complaint at that stage.

Expert’s Conduct

....

Expert's use of the terms 'misleading' and 'must have known' is highly defamatory, implying that the Complainant has deliberately misled Experts on evidence or pleadings — while simultaneously making factual errors of his own and affording the Complainant no opportunity to respond.
....

Expert's use of the phrase 'supernatural ability' is sarcastic in tone and falls below standard expected of Nominet Experts.

I have an interest in this case. My company, Quick Credit Ltd., is in ongoing trademark disputes with Graeme Wingate and his company, Quick Loans Ltd.

But since Graeme has chosen to publish the Appeal Notice, I confess I'm a bit confused by it, in particular the bits above. I've highlighted in bold some of the most surprising bits.

Graeme says more than once that he didn't know who the respondent was when he filed the complaint. That's central to the appeal notice that he's filed at Nominet and then published here.

He also says that he knows the last change of registrant/registrar was in 2019, when the company went into administration.

What's odd is that between around 2020 and 2023, I know that Graeme was communicating with the registrant's administrators, Grant Thornton. He was trying to buy their domain names.

So the timeline is:

2019 - the last change of registrant or registrar, which was only to put in under the control of the registrant's administrator;
2020-2023 - Graeme tried to buy the domain from the administrator, so he knew who the registrant was then;
2026 - Graeme bases an appeal (and a more general complaint about due process) on the grounds that he did not know who the registrant/respondent was.

Why was Graeme trying to buy the domain name for three years from someone, when he says didn't know who had it? Or am I missing something here? :unsure:
 
Morning Jim

Thanks for admitting to the SRA that Toth lied, much appreciated :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:, got to save your own skin at times, I get it.

As for the DRS, I really don't think you've read my appeal or have any knowledge of the NSS's, or any knowledge of my communications with Bona Vacantia over the last 9 months - a lot of your assumptions and interpretations are just plain wrong.

Nice of you to finally break your silence on the subject after the last 3 years. Welcome back.

GW
 
Thanks for admitting to the SRA that Toth lied, much appreciated :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:, got to save your own skin at times, I get it.
That is something that needs to be added to the Graeme Wingate list of things that never happened.

What did happen is that you complained to the SRA. Twice. And both times the complaint never got past the first stage, finding that there was nothing to investigate. In other words, your complaints had no merit and they didn't even get out of the starting blocks.

As for the DRS, I really don't think you've read my appeal or have any knowledge of the NSS's, or any knowledge of my communications with Bona Vacantia over the last 9 months - a lot of your assumptions and interpretations are just plain wrong.
I did read your appeal notice and open letter, since you chose to publish them. My question comes from your own words. It's clearly stated that you didn't know who the registrant was when you filed the complaint and that the expert was wrong to decide that you did. You also say that the last change to the register happened before the timeframe when you were trying to buy the name.

Those two things can't both be right. If there's more, I'm surprised you can't point us to it. It's a simple question. It should be a simple answer.
 
That is something that needs to be added to the Graeme Wingate list of things that never happened.
:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: Toth you said that you knew the person dealing with it at Grant Thornton's - you told the SRA what Jim? Come on, let's be honest with people here - what did you tell them? I think you need a come to Jesus moment with Toth on this one. Or are you saying you did tell them you knew the person dealing with it at GT?

This is genuinely intriguing. Do you say to to the forum that you actually knew the guy, or do you say to the forum that you didn't know him but you didn't drop Michael in it? The forum watches and waits with excitement to see which you choose.

They reported to me that you said you knew nothing about it, you didn't know Toth had said it at the time and that you didn't know anyone at GT in charge - for the record, I think there was a small chance you and Michael planned it together, but more probable is that you didn't know Toth had said it until I mentioned it later, and also later gave you a copy of the call via email.

I never said to the SRA that you knew about it when it was said by Michael, I didn't have the evidence that you did so told them that I didn't know. The part I complained to the SRA about was that you fell short of the integrity needed to be a Solicitor because even though you have a copy of the call of Michael lying, you still think someone lying to get into a joint venture and yourself financially benefiting from it is ok. You have filed 3 further witness statements since having that call and still cite the validity of an alleged agreement you know to be built on lies. The SRA never considered that question, something I'm going to raise with them later. You also know full well it's false because you would have gone to a Civil Claims Court to enforce it. Have you been Jim? In the last 3 years, have you filed either defamation proceedings to anything I have ever written on my blog, or initiated any Civil proceedings to enforce that alledged agreement? Everyone reading this knows why.

There was a lot more to the complaint to, but I feel it's more appropriate to not involve the forum by repeating them here. People can see the evidence for themselves on the blog later, all the emails, screenshots will be published. I hide nothing.

What did happen is that you complained to the SRA. Twice. And both times the complaint never got past the first stage, finding that there was nothing to investigate. In other words, your complaints had no merit and they didn't even get out of the starting blocks.
Nothing to investigate? They did investigate you on a number of issues. I'm planning a more deeper dive on it in my upcoming blog post though. People can read it and make up their own minds. It all needs sunlight, sunlight cures everything.

I did read your appeal notice and open letter, since you chose to publish them. My question comes from your own words. It's clearly stated that you didn't know who the registrant was when you filed the complaint and that the expert was wrong to decide that you did. You also say that the last change to the register happened before the timeframe when you were trying to buy the name.
That is correct, I didn't know who they were when I filed the .uk complaint. As far as I can recollect, and it's been accurate up to now, I have never tried to buy the .uk, so not sure where that is coming from. I tried to buy the .co.uk, when I reached out to GoDaddy in January of 2023, they wanted to charge me two sets of £79 of whatever it was to reach out to both the .co.uk and .uk owners because they said it was with two different owners - I didn't bother with the .uk owners. If I believed they were with the same owners on the whois, I would have filed them on the same DRS in 2023. There's no mystery.

From recollection, in my appeal it says the .uk name was transferred 2 days before the administration of CashEuroNetUK LLC - so I felt it couldn't have been with GT.
 
That is correct, I didn't know who they were when I filed the .uk complaint. As far as I can recollect, and it's been accurate up to now, I have never tried to buy the .uk, so not sure where that is coming from. I tried to buy the .co.uk, when I reached out to GoDaddy in January of 2023, they wanted to charge me two sets of £79 of whatever it was to reach out to both the .co.uk and .uk owners because they said it was with two different owners - I didn't bother with the .uk owners. If I believed they were with the same owners on the whois, I would have filed them on the same DRS in 2023. There's no mystery.

From recollection, in my appeal it says the .uk name was transferred 2 days before the administration of CashEuroNetUK LLC - so I felt it couldn't have been with GT.
You filed emails between you and Grant Thornton in evidence in our DRS. At your insistance, you got Nominet to confirm that documents in a DRS are not confidential. So I share them now to help refresh your memory.

On 28 May 2020 you wrote to Grant Thornton:

"My name is Graeme Wingate, I own Quick Loans Ltd. I am interested
in making an offer for some of the intellectual property that may
become available for sale in the winding up of the EuroCashnet Group.
Specifically the domain names QuickQuid.co.uk QuickQuid.uk and the
trademarks for these brands."

You had further communication with them. Then on 4 January 2023, nearly three years later, you wrote:

"Due to our brand name being a bit close to QuickQuid, We'd prefer it not to
registered by someone else if possible. We wouldn't use it ourselves, but would park
the domain name so that it isn't seen again
. To stop it going onto the open market
and possibly being a competitor to us in the future, I'd like to make an offer of
£15,000 for the domains QuickQuid.co.uk QuickQuid.uk, with an additional £5,000
in fees to cover your work in the transfer."

So in January 2023, you were having an ongoing dialogue with Grant Thornton about the domains held in the administration. Despite that, you apparently also asked GoDaddy about them, but you can't recall asking Grant Thornton about them over a 3 year period. I'd say that is a bit of a mystery.

I've attached the document you filed in the previous DRS. The file name is the one you gave it when it was filed.

Perhaps you should contact the appeal panel and tell them that your recollection was faulty and you now accept that you did know who the registrant was.
 

Attachments

On 28 May 2020 you wrote to Grant Thornton:
Jim you really don't know what you talking about, and it's sad to watch.

I passed on permission to use whatever you had because I have no fear of any document you have. The truth needs no memory.

Look at the date, that's from 2020. As I said in the previous post, GoDaddy told me in 2023 that it was with different owners, hence the two sets of £79 fee to contact them.

Best of luck in Cardiff.
 
Jim you really don't know what you talking about, and it's sad to watch.

I passed on permission to use whatever you had because I have no fear of any document you have. The truth needs no memory.

Look at the date, that's from 2020. As I said in the previous post, GoDaddy told me in 2023 that it was with different owners, hence the two sets of £79 fee to contact them.

Best of luck in Cardiff.
The second extract is from your email of 4 January 2023.
 
I contacted GoDaddy when? What date does it say on the receipt?
You seem to be a bit confused Graeme. The emails are between you and Grant Thornton.

You contacted Grant Thornton in January 2023, including offering them £20,000 for the domains QuickQuid.co.uk and QuickQuid.uk on 4 January 2023.

Grant Thornton replied on 16 January 2023, saying that they were "not renewing domain names".

You wrote back on 17 January 2023, asking "Just out of interest, is there any amount in fees that we could pay to anyone to alter what is
scheduled to happen to these domain names before they become available in March?
".

Grant Thornton wrote back saying there was nothing more they would do.

So it seems pretty clear that you knew who the registrant was for QuickQuid.uk in January 2023 and you were trying to do a deal with the company's administrator to try to buy it.

But if you are sure this doesn't prejudice your case, I assume you would be willing for me to pass the email thread onto the appeal panel so they can decide whether it's relevant or not?
 
Jim you are clutching at straws, when did I speak to GoDaddy? Before or after I wrote that?

I'm going to post a credit card receipt and email from GoDaddy - but before I do, when did I contact GoDaddy?
 
Jim you are clutching at straws, when did I speak to GoDaddy? Before or after I wrote that?

I'm going to post a credit card receipt and email from GoDaddy - but before I do, when did I contact GoDaddy?
I have no idea. But I do know you were offering £20,000 to Grant Thornton for two specific domain names in January 2023. After 3 years of contact with them. So again, do you have any objection if I send this email thread to the appeal panel?
 
haha, Jim I've spent 3 years trying to stop you making a fool of yourself, believe me it's a skill set I don't possess. You do whatever you want to do.

Send them my credit card statement whilst you are at it (it was probably $79 not £'s, hence the £62.39). Note the one above it to prove that I pay for my shopping at Asda :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: .

That's on the 18th of Jan. I'll just say you are comedy Gold Jim, you've made my day.

By the way, I think a lot of us are noticing you haven't answered my question about what you told the SRA about Toth - I wonder if Toth is noticing as well? You sold him out and it's hilarious.
 

Attachments

  • amex-godaddy-23.png
    amex-godaddy-23.png
    129.6 KB · Views: 20
That is something that needs to be added to the Graeme Wingate list of things that never happened.

What did happen is that you complained to the SRA. Twice. And both times the complaint never got past the first stage, finding that there was nothing to investigate. In other words, your complaints had no merit and they didn't even get out of the starting blocks.
I answered you much earlier in the thread Graeme. I did not tell anyone that Michael lied in a phone call that I was not a party to. I did share with the SRA your email confirming that I had not been involved in the call, because it seemed that you had tried to mislead them with a claim that I had misled you.

To be crystal clear, I do not believe there is a shred of merit in your claim that anything that may or may not have been said between you and Michael about Grant Thornton had any impact on your thinking going into our deal. That is because (as the attached emails show) you already knew, direct from Grant Thornton, that the administration was closed and there was nothing anyone could do with them.

You never once mentioned the alleged contents of the call to me, until after our relationship broke down and you were seeking an excuse not to honour your commitments. You first raised it with a false claim that I had made representations to you, which you seem to have tried to rehash to the SRA. You soon backed down from that and admitted it was untrue.
haha, Jim I've spent 3 years trying to stop you making a fool of yourself, believe me it's a skill set I don't possess. You do whatever you want to do.

Send them my credit card statement whilst you are at it (it was probably $79 not £'s, hence the £62.39).
Note the one above it to prove that I pay for my shopping at Asda :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: .

That's on the 18th of Jan.
You've attached a card payment to GoDaddy, but not any communication you had with them. It was made just as Grant Thornton confirmed that they had closed the administration and would not deal with the domains or respond to your later rather oddly worded inquiry:
"Just out of interest, is there any amount in fees that we could pay to anyone to alter what is
scheduled to happen to these domain names before they become available in March?".


I think GoDaddy were the registrar of record. Was there any particular reason you chose to approach them?

Anyway, I'll take the highlighted bit of your reply to be confirmation that you are happy for me to send the email chain and the credit card receipt to the panel. If you want me to add whatever the receipt meant, in terms of dialogue with GoDaddy, please let me know.
 
I answered you much earlier in the thread Graeme. I did not tell anyone that Michael lied in a phone call that I was not a party to. I did share with the SRA your email confirming that I had not been involved in the call, because it seemed that you had tried to mislead them with a claim that I had misled you.
You should read what I told them below, I don't mislead people and was very clear on this in 11.4. Which version of the story are you on now, you've jumped from it was all Michael's idea for me to file a DRS, to saying that I couldn't have won it without you - even though it had already been filed before you even got involved. You have been all over the place, both of you. I was so fortunate that I have all the calls recorded. There are far worse ones than I have given you so far.

The one about you coming up with the idea trying to reverse hijack Sunny.co.uk's new owner and me telling you it wasn't a good idea. Then discussing the narrative about how you could justify it to the DRS panel with some BS story. You said that he could get out of it in exchange for a fee and/or shares. from the guy. Is that the type of conduct you are on about?

Feel free to point out one thing I have changed my story on, just one?

That is because (as the attached emails show) you already knew, direct from Grant Thornton, that the administration was closed and there was nothing anyone could do with them.
That's precisely the point. Yes, on that call I was the one that told Toth the matter was closed and couldn't be dealt with by GT — but then he told me that you knew someone at GT who was handling it. That's exactly why I agreed to your proposal the next day: because you supposedly had a contact there who could intervene. If what Toth said was true, you would have brought something genuinely valuable to the table. It's all there on the call you have.

To be crystal clear, I do not believe there is a shred of merit in your claim that anything that may or may not have been said between you and Michael about Grant Thornton had any impact on your thinking going into our deal.
Yes we call it the lie. You can believe what you want, convince yourself whatever you want, you are trying to financially benefit from a lie - there are legal issues with that, regardless you two should both have some self respect and I hope potential clients take that on board when considering whether or not to deal with you. If you were a solicitor with insurance I would have sued you, but as I believe you were freestyling it, it made no financial sense. Even Setfords said you weren't in a position to do any work for them, despite you using their details on the SRA register.

You soon backed down from that and admitted it was untrue.
What are you even talking about? This is what I wrote to the SRA:

"
11.4. The Complainant notes that Mr Toth had previously represented to Mr
Wingate that Mr Davies had a personal contact within Grant Thornton. At
that stage it is not clear whether Mr Davies was aware of, or endorsed, that
claim.
However, for over two years prior, Mr Wingate had repeatedly
attempted without success to obtain information or engagement from
Grant Thornton regarding the matter. Against that background, the
suggestion of a personal connection within the administrators carried
particular weight and was presented as a unique advantage that no other
solicitor in this area of work was likely to provide. On the strength of this
representation, Mr Wingate agreed.

I didn't make any accusations I could not back up, and where I didn't have evidence, I said so. The complaint was put together by a Barrister who signed off on it all after checking all of the evidence. What is there that is untrue? In what way have I climbed down?

Anyway, I'll take the highlighted bit of your reply to be confirmation that you are happy for me to send the email chain and the credit card receipt to the panel. If you want me to add whatever the receipt meant, in terms of dialogue with GoDaddy, please let me know.
You are a grown man, you can do what you want, you don't need my permission.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ree
What are you even talking about? This is what I wrote to the SRA:

"
11.4. The Complainant notes that Mr Toth had previously represented to Mr
Wingate that Mr Davies had a personal contact within Grant Thornton. At
that stage it is not clear whether Mr Davies was aware of, or endorsed, that
claim.
However, for over two years prior, Mr Wingate had repeatedly
attempted without success to obtain information or engagement from
Grant Thornton regarding the matter. Against that background, the
suggestion of a personal connection within the administrators carried
particular weight and was presented as a unique advantage that no other
solicitor in this area of work was likely to provide. On the strength of this
representation, Mr Wingate agreed.

I didn't make any accusations I could not back up, and where I didn't have evidence, I said so. The complaint was put together by a Barrister who signed off on it all after checking all of the evidence. What is there that is untrue? In what way have I climbed down?
I have not seen what you filed with the SRA until you posted this. Because the complaint was so weak, it did not even merit an investigation. Despite you apparently using a barrister on it.

What you did not seem to say to the SRA is what you had already admitted long before you filed the complaint with them - that you accepted that I had not been aware of anything about the call or what it was alleged to mean until July 2023. So unless you made that clear elsewhere, you did mislead the SRA.

Your statement also ignores that you knew full well that the administration had been completed by mid-January 2023, well before the call with Michael took place and well before our deal was entered into. So you knew that there was no "unique advantage" available, because it was a done deal. You never once mentioned it while I was contacting Grant Thornton and we were discussing them by email and WhatsApp, which is odd if it was something you felt was important.

I asked about your agreeing to me sending the documents to the panel because you are the person making the appeal, so it would be very different if filed with your knowledge and consent, rather than just coming from me. So I will say it is filed with your knowledge and consent.

Also, you said you were going to post an email chain with GoDaddy. Are you going to share that, to add it to what's filed?
 
This screenshot did open up some big questions and theories tho, im not gonna lie

what did you get from McDonalds?

5.99 is quite a poverty order, I'd at least add some chicken nuggets to a cheese burger meal.

can you click on the order further and show us if you got pickles etc plz
 

Attachments

  • amex-godaddy-23.png
    amex-godaddy-23.png
    129.6 KB · Views: 0
When you guys get McDonalds, do you put chips on your burger?
 
Back
Top