Independent & unaffiliated forum

[dn]

As recent practice has demonstrated, managing a community forum is not just a bed of roses and can be challenging.

Of course, it becomes considerably easier if your only focus is on monetization, advertisements, sponsors, and you have no qualms about censoring free speech or anything that doesn’t align with the prevailing agenda.

But will that attract and retain a genuine audience? Opposing views, free thinkers, scholars... all are essential for a vibrant and dynamic community to flourish.

Most who left Acorn over the years (and decades) for these very reasons had no intention of returning.

The forum experienced a slow, painful decline, reaching its nadir recently as its current owner fixated on dubious non-UK domains, associated with questionable "fakers until they are makers", maintains a "happy go lucky" attitude, and imposed unwarranted member bans, all while ignoring the real issues. I won’t list all the problems as most are already aware.

A new forum was welcomed with a fresh wave of enthusiasm, igniting a sort of renaissance among domainers.
It was especially promising that the forum was started by someone perceived as "neutral," not a rival or an authority figure, but someone modest with good intentions, aiming to create a new space for those still interested in .uk domains to engage in a pleasant and productive atmosphere.

Alas, it didn't last long and the founder succumbed to the pressure of censorship based on unjustified threats.

**MANIFESTO**

This is why a proper forum should not be managed by a single individual who can be threatened or manipulated.

A proper forum should also operate within a jurisdiction that supports free speech.

A forum should be governed by the community and its members, with all content owned by the members, and backup copies kept and accessible by appointed members and/or non-affiliated parties.

I am here to help kickstart such a forum, even though I never had an interest in running a domaining forum, despite numerous opportunities to launch and propagate one.

I am doing this now because UKDNF demonstrated that the community is not only ripe for change but is embracing it wholeheartedly and eager to reignite what has long been lost with a fresh start. Coming from everyone, the number of email invitations to join UKDNF was touching and uplifting.
I couldn't stand by and watch what happened to this newly born and how indefensibly and inexcusably it was decimated.

I do not seek any authority on this forum, not even as a moderator. This is not started as DL's or my forum, and for anyone who might hold a grudge against me in this often harsh domaining rivalry—join in, everyone shall be an equal member, and you might even have more influence on the forum than I do.

I'd like to invite for several admin/moderators positions based on my 19 years of experience knowing "who is who" in this community and aiming to be as diverse as possible, leaning towards neutrality. Additional admin/moderators will be voted on by this forum community. Any decisions regarding the forum will require a unanimous vote from the council members. I will retain one vote to ensure this forum does not "go to the dogs" and has the extra ironclad balls to withstand any attempts to suppress and intimidate an open community.

 

[Kaleido]

I'm looking forward to wading through this swamp of trash and racism and to bashing other businesses and people.

 

[DJ]

Hi Denys,

Hope you are keeping well.

Having been apart of UKDNF from day 1, I am as sad as anyone to see things end the way they have, but I am glad that the closure has bought Aaron some relief, and he can now go back to enjoying a peaceful life spending his time with his Daughter, Frank, and lets face it Pokemon cards. I know Aaron won't post, but I am also aware he is very appreciative of all the kind comments and messages the community have been sending, and he would probably want you all to know that he is in a better place mentally now.

Back to your post.

I personally invested quite a bit of time and effort in the other forum, which I enjoyed, but I am reluctant to do it again without some assurances. You have partly addressed some yourself in the post above, so I hope you don't mind me asking a few questions in order to get some clarification.

1. Part of the demise of UKDNF surrounded the negativity shown towards Acorn and Ryan, I was guilty myself in the begining, but I feared that it would not be good for the forum which is why I created this posts:

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.ukdnf.co.uk%2Fthreads%2Fis-it-time-to-stop-the-bitterness-towards-acorn-domains.212%2Fpage-2

With what has gone on I feel it would be important for all members identities to be accountable to the mods in order to avoid ghost accounts stirring up shit. The identity does not necessarily need to be made public to all members, but it would be important to at least be confirmed by a mod. - Is this something you agree with?

2. You have already addressed free speech which is, I like many others I am sure, will be keen to clarify that complaints, if warranted, about DomainLore will be fair game?

3. I'm going to address the elephant in the room. I know that you and RobM (UKBO) have a history, which is understandable as you are rivals, and I fear/know, rightly or wrongly, that if you retain any ownership of this forum Rob will take no part in it. I honestly don't feel any UK domain forum without the 2 biggest players involved (you and Rob) is worth having and it will result in 2 separate rival forums along with Acorn. With this in mind, rather than being hands off, would you be willing to give up ownership of the forum for the good of the community. You could retain the domain name and another could be used, and the moderators could obtain full ownership of the forum on behalf of the community with possibly each 'Verified' member having 1 share/vote for any important decisions going forward?

I am interested to hear your thoughts.

Cheers,

DJ

 

[ben]

I like the idea of this decentralised model of adoption. I was willing to setup a community myself, with UKDNX, but this is a much better alternative as I have no time for it and frankly, I'm not interested in running such a forum. Hopeful to see how things turn out.

 

[dn]

Hi Denys,

hey DJ,
(always tend to say "mr.")

With what has gone on I feel it would be important for all members identities to be accountable to the mods in order to avoid ghost accounts stirring up shit. The identity does not necessarily need to be made public to all members, but it would be important to at least be confirmed by a mod. - Is this something you agree with?

I have mixed feelings about members be required to prove their identities. There must be softer ways to prevent ghost accounts and shit "being stirred up". But we shall see..

2. You have already addressed free speech which is, I like many others I am sure, will be keen to clarify that complaints, if warranted, about DomainLore will be fair game?

More than welcome.
Never tried to censor such discussions happening at other places.
Also I do not promise to participate.

3. I'm going to address the elephant in the room. I know that you and RobM (UKBO) have a history, which is understandable as you are rivals, and I fear/know, rightly or wrongly, that if you retain any ownership of this forum Rob will take no part in it. I honestly don't feel any UK domain forum without the 2 biggest players involved (you and Rob) is worth having and it will result in 2 separate rival forums along with Acorn. With this in mind, rather than being hands off, would you be willing to give up ownership of the forum for the good of the community. You could retain the domain name and another could be used, and the moderators could obtain full ownership of the forum on behalf of the community with possibly each 'Verified' member having 1 share/vote for any important decisions going forward?

Agree. Although, I communicate with Rob wherever needed, it must be an ancient impression we are bitter rivals who don't speak to each other. For that I'd hope to see 'ukbackorder' have joined here on the first day and without a fuss.
As for handing ownership, if you read my first posts, that is what I actually intend to do (incl. the domains) and have no plans (or will) to oversee this forum myself.
However, because the idea is to have an independent and non-affiliated forum, there must be certain mechanisms in place to prevent it going the wrong way in the future and for that I'm keen to retain a sort of a "golden vote" right to ensure the original vision is maintained.

 

[DJ]

(always tend to say "mr.")

Don't worry, you're not the only one, and I've been called worse.

I have mixed feelings about members be required to prove their identities. There must be softer ways to prevent ghost accounts and shit "being stirred up". But we shall see..

I'm not suggesting ID checks, more along the lines of active elsewhere or twitter account, or just Fred knows me. The user who posted the data leak at brandable, made 1 post, that was it, no idea he it was and no follow up to the rest of the discussion. It would be good for whoever the mods of this forum are going forward, knew that was done with good intentions and not by a ghost account. I am not sure how it would work, but I think the community would be a better place with accountability. That or maybe a verified account for people who want to be verified, and then members can take non-verified members comments with a pinch of salt.

More than welcome.
Never tried to censor such discussions happening at other places.
Also I do not promise to participate.

This is good to hear, obviously targeted abuse at anyone shouldn't be tolerated, but genuine and fair criticism should be fair game.

I'd hope to see 'ukbackorder' have joined here on the first day and without a fuss.

From what I know, I fear this might be unlikely as it stands, I hope I am wrong.

As for handing ownership, if you read my first posts, that is what I actually intend to do (incl. the domains) and have no plans (or will) to oversee this forum myself.
However, because the idea is to have an independent and non-affiliated forum, there must be certain mechanisms in place to prevent it going the wrong way in the future and for that I'm keen to retain a sort of a "golden vote" right to ensure the original vision is maintained.

If a 'Golden Vote' is maintained it kind of goes against the passing ownership to the community. Surely, if matters are dealt with and voted on by the community it couldn't go in the wrong direction as it would be community lead. So if the community voted to implement something that you didn't entirely agree with, your 'Golden Vote' could supersede this? The only way I could see this working is if the vote was a 50/50 split (or a decent pre-agreed majority not obtained) then maybe it should be reverted back to the mods or you for a deciding vote.

For example, RobM kindly provided the feed for the droplists to UKDNF, the only condition was a basket icon was maintained so people could book the domain through UKBO. Now should RobM be willing to provide the same information to this new forum, he would probably want the same. The option would then be for you to provide the droplist information and have the same checkout links. There is obviously and understandably a conflict of interest here, in this scenario it would be great for both of you to maintain checkout links on the lists as it would be for the good of the community and fair to both of you. If this wasn't possible. the next fairest option would be to vote on who's list the forum wants to use.

I am only trying to drill this down now as I would like to get both Rob and you active on the same forum, By active I don't mean posting everyday, but make the forum beneficial for both of your businesses.

 

[Nigel]

Thanks to Denys for the opportunity to post here. Personally I'm happy for Denys to have overall control - I wouldn't want to co-own it and Denys has a track record of being reliable i.e. domainlore is always there - never down and well managed. I just want somewhere where we can discuss uk domains and help lift the market. If this forum goes wrong then another will appear - we've seen that already thanks to Aaron. So lets move on - we've got what we wanted - we need a little positivity and investment in the uk domain market instead of tearing ourselves apart.

 

[dn]

If a 'Golden Vote' is maintained it kind of goes against the passing ownership to the community. Surely, if matters are dealt with and voted on by the community it couldn't go in the wrong direction as it would be community lead. So if the community voted to implement something that you didn't entirely agree with, your 'Golden Vote' could supersede this?

Remember we are speaking not just about "implement something" but about major direction changes, which might affect the original vision. For such changes yes, I'd want to preserve a vote which would form a part of a required unanimity.

For example, RobM kindly provided the feed for the droplists to UKDNF, the only condition was a basket icon was maintained so people could book the domain through UKBO. Now should RobM be willing to provide the same information to this new forum, he would probably want the same. The option would then be for you to provide the droplist information and have the same checkout links. There is obviously and understandably a conflict of interest here,

No conflict. Whatever anyone wants to do can DIY. Whoever does it first can rip all the benefits (and have preferences).
I can provide access to the server to any trusted member to do whatever pleases the community.

in this scenario it would be great for both of you to maintain checkout links on the lists as it would be for the good of the community and fair to both of you. If this wasn't possible. the next fairest option would be to vote on who's list the forum wants to use.

I am only trying to drill this down now as I would like to get both Rob and you active on the same forum, By active I don't mean posting everyday, but make the forum beneficial for both of your businesses.

To tell the truth I don't believe that a domainers forum can be beneficial to DL as things stand now. Hence from the start I am not seeking any benefit to myself or my businesses. My goal is to have impartial and unaffiliated forum for those who'd like to talk .uk domains.

 

[astutiumRob]

for those who'd like to talk .uk domains.

Only .uk domains or are we allowed to talk about the wider (pre 2011) gtld namespace or the entirely of 'domains' inc spammer-favourite newtlds and on-chain stuff ?

 

[astutiumRob]

That or maybe a verified account for people who want to be verified, and then members can take non-verified members comments with a pinch of salt.

+1 for a "verified" tag

 

[dn]

Only .uk domains or are we allowed to talk about the wider (pre 2011) gtld namespace or the entirely of 'domains' inc spammer-favourite newtlds and on-chain stuff ?

intended for .uk domains as there must be better places to talk other domains, but obviously free to discuss anything, especially when there are other parties willing to support the conversation.